How To Sleep Better feat. Paige LeGault

Have trouble falling asleep? Are you needing to get better sleep? Wanting to fall asleep quickly and stay asleep longer? Sleep specialist Paige LeGault shares her simple and actionable approach to getting better sleep.

We all need to sleep better. Whether it's you that's struggling to fall asleep or it's your kids, the sleep tips you learn in this episode of The Big Picture Business Podcast will make insomnia a thing of the past and show you how to sleep fast.

If you're looking to improve your sleep hygiene and get the rest you desire then you'll love this episode. Listen now and start your path to sleeping better.

Connect with Paige at: https://www.parentingpracticeco.com/

Be sure to mention the BPB Podcast for a special discount on her services! 

Transcript

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And we had to go get from California to Nashville and drove straight through and I was awake the whole time. I like the six month mark. I stopped napping. Yeah. Welcome to another episode of The Big Picture business podcast. Thanks so much for taking some time out of your busy schedule to hang out with us today. I'm very, very excited to introduce all of you to Paige Legault. Hi Paige Hi, how you doing? Thank you for having me. We are so excited. You're here and Hi, Rory. What's up? Hello. Yes, we're excited because just as we were talking before, this episode is about sleep and how US entrepreneurs don't get enough sleep. I mean, no joke, Rory and I were talking back and forth. We're texting back and forth at 6am My time this morning. Here I am thinking oh, well, we must be up early. That's kind of weird. And then I asked have you been to sleep yet? And he was like, Nope. You need some sleep and so the timing of getting the opportunity to talk with Paige today is perfect because I'm calling Rory out man need some sleep. But aside from being a business owner and adults eating sleep Paige specializes with children and so I want to talk about that. Let me just say a little bit more about Paige before we get started Okay, so Paige is the owner and founder of parenting practice of Colorado and certified pediatric sleep specialist proudly trained through sleep sense her extensive background in early childhood education as well as her history working with a wide variety of all types of families over the past 16 years has allowed her the confidence and ability to help each family in their unique circumstance. And she's dedicated to supporting parents as they assist their babies and children in learning healthy sleep habits which will set them up for a lifetime of healthy sleep. Yeah, how do you guys know each other? Let's talk about that. Very good question. So I was desperate with my daughter she was not sleeping she was two she I think just turned two little over two at the time and she just was not sleeping and everything that we tried we were reading so many different books listening to various podcasts and I mean nothing of course the family steps in right where it's like try this and try that so I put out a note on a local Facebook group I'm a part of was like Can anyone help me get my child to sleep? Because I'm losing my mind and She's ruining my life? No. It was really like it was so taxing on the day to day someone linked pages website to me and then once that happened, it was like a flood of all these women were like pages the best you have to call her she's amazing. And so I contacted you within like five minutes of getting your your website. I don't know you you don't know me, but I need your help immediately. And you were so sweet. And I contacted you like I want to say maybe 10 days before Christmas. It was tight. Tight I think you could just hear the sheer desperation in my voice is right for your life. And were very gracious enough to take me on as as your final clients of the year which was everything what a great Christmas gift you got yourself though. Yeah, so Paige helped us get Emma back on track what I valued so much about Paige's teaching style she gave us all the tools we needed and then basically said I understand that it might be a bit odd and that this is totally out of like your comfort zone when it comes to like boundaries with your child and the way you've been doing things and it might be kind of out of the norm but just trust the process. And so my husband Chris and I we just got on board like this is really weird. I'm sitting on the floor for two hours waiting vertical asleep or whatever we were doing that day but it worked all the sudden we rounded the was like the 12 Day two week mark and she was completely sleeping through the night seven to seven gloriously. And so I've had such a positive experience with Paige and her style. And thank god my child is sleeping now. I mean, we're sleeping Chris and I have our evenings back. And so I had to have her come on the show cannot sing her praises enough. Oh, thank you. I'm happy to be here. And I'm I was persistent. You did try a lot of tactics. And then once she trusted that you were going to be there with this new support plan. She got it. She was happy. It's amazing. And the overall mood when they sleep. I mean, it just sets up such a healthy foundation for the day. It's pretty miraculous. How are your kids sleeping these days? Right? overall pretty good. I'm happy to hear that because when they sleep everybody sleeps something though that I that I wanted to pick your brain a little bit about Paige is I'm wondering like through sleep sense in your training. Have you noticed kids? We're talking like infant style that you're teaching super, super little. Have you noticed that it's not only just a really healthy foundation, but moving forward throughout, like adolescent years and what that looks like and setting up like healthy sleeping patterns and practices. Absolutely. It's funny that you You asked me that I was speaking to a mom about that today of laying the healthy foundations from the jump like the day you come home practicing and what that looks like long term. And I see much more attached children to their parents in the way that we want and enjoy not clingy, fussy, irritable, do it for me. But genuinely, they want to be together. They don't need all that physical touch to be regulated, and they're happy, and their content and they have a trusting, loving relationship with their parents. And then even further along the growth spectrum, they have confidence in themselves and more ability to try things and fail or succeed without it, crashing them. And I think because they aren't exhausted and being pushed to their limit for years, because some kids are they never sleep well, they can process those things easier, and gain the confidence and all of those wonderful things that come with it. And then as teenagers, teenagers are wild, and in general, but if they're good sleepers from the jump, they can go through puberty easier. And they don't have such low goals. I feel like if you're exhausted, and then you go through puberty, you have a higher chance of having depression, or just a harder time connecting with peers because you feel weird and different. And then you throw in being exhausted on top of it. And all the social requirements, you can get down in the dumps so easy. And then you learn to drive like, why do we do that to them. If you're not exhausted, you can go through your day to day easier, handle your emotions better, you're less susceptible to be depressed or have ADHD symptoms. And if something does go off physically with you, it's easier to catch because we're not already seeing it because it's an exhaustion cue like bad behavior or short fuses or aggression, things like that, that we see in childhood that a lot of times are just exhaustion coming out. So yeah, starting from the jump and laying healthy sleep foundations is going to set your child up for a really, really wonderful future of secure attachment and healthy life. Yeah, I was that kid who did not sleep. Well. You still don't. Then I never napped, and so even my mom was like, I like the six month mark. I stopped napping. Yeah, briny. And she was like, I could not get you to nap. Like I go to preschool and kindergarten or whatever. And you know, they'd be like, Okay, now it's nap time. And I just lie there be like, No, not gonna nap. What do you think that's about page? Do you think it's just like an overactive mind? Like, what is? What's that about? No, I don't think at six months, it's an overactive mind, it's most likely a schedule error that either Rory was pushed to the extreme length of staying awake, because he naturally just stayed awake longer and didn't connect to multiple sleep cycles in a nap setting. Like we would like to see, once that happens, his sleep debt builds up like that sleep pressure, and he no longer has the ability to go down no matter what we do. And it takes a long time to get into that, like months. So you must have never been able to connect to sleep cycle, which is normal. We're not born with that ability, which is why sleep teaching is a thing. And then at four months, we get the second two layers of sleep. And that just throws everything off. And maybe when your mom was soothing you and putting you down, she thought you were asleep like you were a week ago when you were three months. And now you're not you're in the first layer and you're very easily woken, you essentially have to start completely over. And if she doesn't have an hour, 45 minutes to do that you're not going back down. And I think the science that's coming out now all the research that we know how important sleep is the studies around sleep teaching in general, we've learned that it's not dangerous. There aren't blasting issues like attachment interrupting or anything like that. We know that it's important to take those 45 minutes to try to get baby back down. And before it's just up, they won't do it. Let's move on with our day. Or oh, I don't have time because we didn't know I was also a poor sleeper to worry. So I feel that naptime. I can see myself laying on the nap mat not doing it. But it's funny because that continued right because that was kind of the way things were like your body was attuned to it. Yeah. And then by the time I was like, you know, actually in school, I didn't get enough sleep. Yeah, so then I didn't perform as well in school. I was always tired and even you know, affected. You know, I was supposed to be according to the doctors like six feet tall and I didn't get that teenage growth spurt. Really? How tall are you? You're like 510 Yeah, like five nine. Yeah. I always thought you were much taller than that. And so like I think you can see long term like how sleep can affect our bodies like and we we know this I like we're talking about my current sleep issues right? It is an ongoing struggle to get that consistent sleep cycle. So in regards to that, like how, because we were talking about how, like, I tend to be a very nighttime person, part of that is just, that's when I'm most awake most afraid of and all of that, how does that play into? Is there like specific times of days that are better to sleep? And like, how does how does that play into our ability to, you know, function, run our businesses and all that stuff and still be a dad? Yeah. Two answers. For this. For children, it's really important. So having a consistent bedtime between the ages of zero and five is huge. When we wake up for the day that sets our circadian rhythm as a child or an adult. But in children, their melatonin production starts to really ramp up at 7pm. So in order for them to get 12 hours, we really shoot for them to go from 7pm to 7am. That's the most natural rhythm for a child. Yes, it's possible to do a nine to nine or eight to eight based on what your family needs. But it's easier for seven, seven for adults having to deal with all 200 things we do a day, we're less able to settle down and do everything, be creative, and then go to bed at seven. Like that's not possible our melatonin still produces. But as adults, it shifts when it produces with your natural rhythm. So the first step would be wake up everyday at the same time, set your circadian rhythm that way and then choose a time that fits best for you to try to be in bed start practicing to sleep every night. At the same time, it takes a lot longer for adults to have this workout because of the lives we live, right I don't I can't get to bed at 10pm Every night because of work and my baby, right? So you've got to find a time that you can try to be at like 80% consistent with for at least a month. And then from there, your body will start to produce melatonin regularly at the same time, because you're going to give it those cues. Oh, he's in bed, oh, really taking a shower, but we're not eating anymore. It's dark. It's cool, all those good things, and then you're going to get more consistent sleep cycles because your melatonin will go up. Well, that that's probably why my body starts getting tired at 5am. Right? Like it's been trained to produce melatonin by bam, yeah. So for you, maybe it's just stepping back an hour each week until you get to a feasible hour, maybe it's midnight. And that's just comfortable for you. I love when the pets come to say hello, that's the best. I totally just jumped in and wanted to ask questions right away without saying Hi, can you tell us more about your background? And how you got into this? Because I know all this right before our listeners, can you please let them know how you even got into doing sleep training and in more of your background? Totally. So I used to be a preschool teacher at a Montessori school in Boulder, Colorado, I loved it. I love that age range. Toddlers are wonderful. And there was a shift among the parents and the teachers all of a sudden in 2016 2017. And it seems like the teachers were doing a lot more and the parents were requiring a lot more and needed more in home support. And there's no way teachers can do more than they already do if you know when they give 110%, if not more. So I decided, let me figure out what's going on. Let me leave, go back to school and bridge this gap between the teachers and the parents and get those kiddos where we want them to be. As I left, I started getting hired just to do consultations and homes for behavior support. And I realized no one is sleeping. Everyone's so miserable and tired. Everyone's got a short fuse. We can't even get into behavior until we get into sleep because you can't comprehend what I'm asking you to do if you slept for two hours, and your head is certainly not going to listen, if they also slept for two hours. So that's how I found sleep sense. And I got accepted into their program went through it. I think it took me about a year from just when I found them to when the actual training occurred after that I graduated. And I believe it was 2019 at that point, and I started taking on full sleep clients. And now I'm doing a mix of sleep and behavior slash parent coaching, which is what I love. It goes hand in hand. So for instance, a recent call I had with a mama was all about behavior. And then we got into sleep and it was like we got to do both. So let's just tackle it and get it done. And then in three weeks or a month. They're like who is this kid? He's never been this nice or call or eat this well or sleep this well. So that's me and that's what I do. And I'm so happy to be here and help all these families. What I love about you page is that you took on this journey of learning all about this one Well, before you even had your little one Oh, yeah. And I think that's really sweet that you now can take everything you know, and actually put it into action like for yourself and for your for your daughter. I think that's special. It's totally different when you have your own. I'm sure, in a good way, right. She's been wonderful. And going back to your question earlier of setting the stage, essentially, from the beginning. That's what we did with my daughter. And people ask us all the time, like, she always is happy and calm and easy. And I'm like, Yeah, that's who she is. But I've never given her the opportunity to be pushed over the edge. Like Rory and I were with our sleep when we were little. She's never felt exhaustion. Yes, we've had bad nights. But it's never been built up to the point of where she can't function, or I can't function because we started from the jump. And I think that has a lot to do with how she is she's not fussy, or difficult, quote, unquote, which is nice. When I give that to all the mamas, it just reminded me of had to go on a tour for a band I was playing with, and we had to go get from California to Nashville and drove straight through. And I was awake the whole time. Was like 40 to 44 hours, something like that. It was like crazy. I forgot you guys drove all that? Yeah. Gosh, that's wild. I want to ask two questions. What are some of the consequences of sleep debt? And then how do you reverse sleep that especially when it's been compounding so some of the side effects of long term sleep debt and adults can definitely be high cortisol levels, which just wreaks havoc on our system, right? You can have migraines your ability to make decisions can be impaired, because you just have brain fog car crashes is higher in adults when they're tired, which is just terrifying. And then just the long term effects on cortisol on your body. In general, it's stress in the body, right? That's not great for your organs, it's really hard to come down from that your adrenal system takes a really hard hit. And just the high stress levels, we know what that causes in our body. Sometimes it can come out as migraine sometimes it can come out as rage in your emotional outbursts, right, your short fuse and your temper so that inhibits relationships. And then other times it just is damaged in your physical organs that we don't see until later how it happens in people, it's different for everybody. But long term levels of high cortisol isn't wonderful on our body, we got to come down we got to regulate our system, we can't always be like vibrating right so how you overcome that is you got to just get ahead of that sleep debt. So without practicing of picking the right amount of time so when you go to sleep when you wake up every day one and two setting yourself up for successful sleep. So as adults getting off of our phones and away from that blue light is number one number two is not eating specific foods before bed that are just going to sit in your gut all my you don't want to eat a big bagel before bed, it's not going to go anywhere or cottage cheese, but having a banana or drinking some tart cherry juice to get your melatonin going is going to help you get into sleep faster. And then having the same ritual every night. It can be a five minute ritual, it can be a 10 minute one but change your clothes, wash your face, do some meditation, read a book, brush your teeth and lay down anything like that to cue your body sleep is coming sleep is coming. Your melatonin will go up after practicing that for a month you will take care of that sleep debt every day you're chipping away, you're chipping away and it'll get better and better. And then you can assess at that point. Okay, I woke up the last week I've gotten six and a half hours every day of consolidated sleep and I feel awesome. Now you can make your schedule where you know I need six and a half hours to be the best way so you can finagle it how you need so if you're on a road trip and you're going to do the first half and then you've got to do six and a half hours of sleep plan it like that still accommodate your needs without pushing yourself too far. So let me ask you what's the most difficult situation you've come across with someone in their sleep? This story is super dear to my heart. She is now one of my closest friends. But in 2019 I had a mama call me in tears out of nowhere, like she just called me we didn't have a sales call or consultation call setup and Hello. And she had I believe he was 16 months at the time. And he had never slept more than three hours and his whole life consecutively. Oh, he was dropping naps and he was now biting, hitting spitting and screaming at her all night long. She was sleeping in his crib with him and she was also four months pregnant. So now we're getting into danger zone of where her body physically needs sleep or like we're shutting it down. Yep, shutting down and the mental load during that first trimester is so intense of when you're dealing with your toddler who's beating you up all night long plus no sleep. She was at her wit's end. Like we had to just dive in that day and get stuff going, because we were both worried she was gonna snap, literally, you don't know what that's going to look like for individual people. That's where mistakes happen that you would never think could happen. So we started and he was sleeping three days later. And she calls me that morning crying, he slept 10 and a half hours. We finished up our program, he still to this day sleeps, he gets about 11 and a half hours. That's his sweet spot. And he does a two and a half hour nap every day happily in his crib and new babies here. And we're working through new baby right now. And she was really a beautiful success story. And right at the edge of her limit. She says if I had waited another week, I don't know what would have happened. I'm glad that you brought that up because it it really does come down to a safety issue at that point. And and you saying like you don't know what could happen? Yeah, when we get to that limit, the stress, the overwhelm the burnout, and then no sleep. It's like, okay, I'm done. I was we were very close. We were very close to that burnout of just like, this is absolutely miserable, and we're losing our minds. Please come help me. And so they thank God for you, truly. And I will say Emma wasn't even in that same realm, right? Like, it doesn't sound like it. No. But in my mind, she was in your mind. She was and you were at your limit. Imagine where that other Mama was like how far she had been pushed. That was a very successful case for everybody. And I'm glad it worked as quickly as it did because she couldn't handle it. Thank God, what are some of the things that people have in their rooms that are of benefit and not so benefits screens are the worst thing for a bedroom. The blue light turns off your melatonin it's counterintuitive, but warm colors red, gold, orange, kick up melatonin and you would think that's the opposite because it's like the sun right now it's blue light. So get those screens out. For kiddos I typically say an hour before bedtime screens need to be off because I don't want it messing with melatonin. Another thing for adults. Some tricky is if you work in your bedroom. So with everything we've gone through this past year and some change, people have worked in their bedrooms out of necessities and then their body isn't able to turn off and turn up that melatonin and go to bed because they see it as a working space. So that's another one try to separate if you can. And then I guess this wouldn't necessarily be in the bedroom. But for adults changing out of their day wear into something new signifies it's time to sleep too. And I think especially for people like us who are Go Go Go busy parents, entrepreneurs, it's easy to just kind of get in bed and not worry about it right plug into your phone or your TV. And then your body's confused about what it's supposed to be doing because you're still in jeans or whatever. And I don't wear jeans but still knows yoga pants I hear totally yoga pants. And some benefits could definitely be plants to help clean your air in your room. That's a good one white noise or a fan is great. Controlling that temperature is key. Just making sure it's cool enough, your brain has to decrease by two degrees to fall into sleep. So it's hot in your room or you're under a lot of blankets. It's going to take you longer. That's one of my biggest things. I can't fall asleep if I'm too warm. Everyone else is too cold. Oh, it to get it to the temperature that I need to sleep. Yeah. And then other times it's simply what are you sleeping on? Like, is that pillow proper for your body? This would be more for adults. But is the mattress doing its job? Essentially? Are you comfortable? Can you lay down and fully relax and kind of give in or is it good for your wife or your spouse? Right and not you? That's hard too. So what do you recommend for people like say what would be the biggest key thing if they had to change one thing like today? Like what's the one thing that they could Yeah, start your day at the same time every day. Okay, weekend or workday doesn't matter. Same time that's been really key for us with Emma because she she wakes up at seven and so do we. So but it's it's it's been really positive though. It's like hey, we're all up together. We do breakfast together. This is what we're doing and it Yeah, the the cohesiveness throughout the house. Everybody's much happier. It sets the tone for your day and gets you into a good rhythm but most importantly it gets your circadian rhythm going on one schedule. You can gear Yeah, this has been amazing Paige I was just gonna say do you recommend like melatonin supplements for for people? That's a real Hot question. For typical cases, no, because it doesn't do what we would like it to do long term. If we take a synthetic melatonin, it tells your own melatonin production to turn off because there's already melatonin here, okay? We don't need it, and then it wears off overnight and your production is turned off. So you're going to wake up anyways. So it defeats the purpose. And if you do it long term, you have to up the amount you take to get it producing longer, so you can sleep longer throughout the night. So it's kind of a double edged sword. It turns off your reserves of your own melatonin, it confuses your body and then you become dependent on taking it because your melatonin is turned off. So for children who don't have some sort of underlying issue of low melatonin reserves, or very extreme cases where let's say they have split nights and they sleep for three hours and then they're up for like six hours, I wouldn't suggest it and I asked clients to get off of it. Other cases there can be syndromes like Angelman syndrome, which is a chromosomal disorder where they don't produce melatonin, how we need it to be produced. So they have to take it that's different. So in adults, I would say it's best to wean yourself off of it if you're taking it and try to up your melatonin naturally by waking up at the same time every day. Have a banana before bed or some tart cherry juice before bed tart cherry juice is wild. There's a whole study on it. Try to do those things to up your melatonin naturally. Take a warm bath with some Epsom salt or shower with it on the floor in your shower, and then go to bed at the same time every night and just give your body the time to adjust to make that melatonin it takes a while I would say at least 30 days of that really good practice regimented schedule. All right, Rory, you got your marching orders? Yeah. 30 days back here. I want to know how you're sleeping. Thank you so much, Paige for taking this time with us and for bestowing the most important knowledge that we all need bottom line need to get some sleep, everybody, it's essential. It's life. We have to sleep. Oh, my goodness, well, what's the best way for our listeners to get in contact with you? And I know you also have a bit of a special offer for our listeners as well. Is that right? Absolutely. I do. So my website is parenting practice of colorado.com. You can pop over there and find social media and packages and updates from me. And then in November, I'm launching a new program. It's a digital download for newborns. So from zero to 12 weeks practicing each week. One goal with your new baby, get that attachment lay healthy sleep foundations and work on feeding. So that will be coming out in November and anyone who purchases a program in November and beyond with me can get a little bit of a discount and there's a code on the website ready to go. We will be sure to put our custom coupon code for the BBB podcast for all of you listening to go check out her courses and everything she has going on again. You're the best. I love you. Thank you. That's it for this time, guys. We'll see you later. Bye.